4: You have a very expansive experience as a woman, as an artist. 

A: As a female friend. 

4: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I wanted to begin - when you first started making art, what was the thing that inspired you? Was it when you were coming into your femininity? How were those things aligned?

A: Totally. Well, I'm born and raised here [New York City.] I grew up here. So I always had little twinkles into the outside world, and I would sneak out all the time. When I was like 16 or 17, I would just go chain smoke on Christopher Street and make friends with the old queens that were hanging out there. And that was how I scratched the itch when I was a little bit older. But honestly, even when I was a teeny tiny baby, it was Barbies.com for me. And I have a twin brother. And my mom used to have to sneak me my Barbies when we went to the toy store, because my dad would take my brother through the store, and he would always get a video game, which was right in the front of Toys R Us, which the kids nowadays might not know - was a store. It doesn't exist anywhere. Where you buy toys - for us. And at the beginning, they had their little video game section, and then it's all like the other aisles and shit. 

4: Yes, yes, yes.

A: And my dad would spend the whole time trying to convince me of literally anything else in the store. But my mom, lowkey, knew the only thing I would go for. So every time we would walk to them, because the Barbie section was all the way back by the register, and we would walk through. And I still wouldn't pick anything, because I was a very stubborn child. 

4: Of course.

A: Let her be known. And by the time we got to the end, I still wouldn't pick anything. And then my dad would be like, okay, I'm going to go buy it. And he would buy my brother's toy. And my mom would be like, “I'll meet you at the car. You guys just go.” And then we would browse the bullshit stuff by the register, like basketballs, hula hoops, that kind of thing - I'm not getting that. And once we saw he was like three people deep in the line, and couldn't possibly recoil if we went to go do something, we booked it to the Barbie section. And my mom would get me - and this was honestly a low-key cheat code. And I think this is where I'm such a little princess nowadays. We would get the Barbie, but then we would also get a cover-up toy. Because my brother would always get a video game, so he's reading the manual in the car. And he’s so excited - like a new toy, that kind of thing. And we learned after hiding, unsuccessfully once, that I can't just be like, “I didn't get anything.” We had to have some bullshit while my mom has the contraband in her purse. So I would get a little stuffed animal or something. So I always got two toys. Honestly, you thought you could keep a diva down. You could not, sir. And that was when I was young. When I started making art - I've been acting since high school. But before that, I was very into visual arts and drawing and painting and all that kind of stuff. I always loved it. I had this Jewish art teacher in high school. Her name was Mrs. Honigman. Shout-out to Mrs. Honigman. If you're still kicking and you're reading the T4T zine, just know you're the diva. Because I remember one time we were doing some project that involved a pantyhose or something. And I went to an all-boys, or as I call it, “all-boys but one,” in the Bronx. And all the boys in class were struggling to put the pantyhose on. And she was like, “I bet you know how to do this.” I was like, “Diva, not you clocking me.” I was like, “thanks, babe - I do.” I started acting in high school. And I remember one time, I was always teacher's pet. I was really into that. That was just my safe space. On the stage, ironically enough, we spent the whole day… I feel like a lot of queer kids go through this.

4: Absolutely. 

A: We spent the whole day quiet as a mouse. And the second you get into that, either the art room or the theater, it's a whole other person. And that was totally my vibe. And I remember, I would always help out - if people were out for the play but we had rehearsal and we were going through it, I would always read the lines of the people that weren't there. We were doing Bye Bye Birdie in high school. There was a part, The Mayor's Wife, that my director was like, “Oh, we'll cast that later.” He just hadn't gotten to it yet. So I was reading it every day in rehearsal. And then we got to a week or so before the show and I was like, “Mr. O, can I just do it? Can I be the lady? Can I just do it? It'll be so good.” Mind you, remember this is a Catholic school. I had to have a meeting with him, I had to have a meeting with the producer, who was also the music teacher, my guidance counselor, and the principal of the school. And I literally had to sign off saying, basically, if I got bullied for this, it was my fault because I chose to do it. I said, “No problem.”  And they got me dressed for it. The costume lady at the time, she was the mom of two kids in the school. And oddly enough, her older son, who was also in the club, is now her older daughter as well. So I think she knew what she was doing. She was dolling me up for this.

And they said that I looked too good, that they had to brick me down, babe. It was devastating.

I had this little red dress, and long black hair, and this little red heel, red patent leather, snake skin heels. And they said I looked too good. So then the next day, tell me how I'm in pumas.

And a cardigan. And glasses.

4: They said the mayor's wife is not that cunty. 

A: Literally. I don't know if you know the show, but Elvis comes to town. Some girl wins a radio contest where she'll get to kiss Elvis - their Elvis, his name's Conrad. And when he comes to town, the mayor's wife is hot and heavy for him. She's really ready for Elvis to invade her town as well. In a puma. So that was my first touch acting. But then I went to school for theatre in Staten Island. Wagner College, which at the time was number one for theatre in the country. I got a half schol, and it was far enough away from my parents. So I was like, “Toodles! I love you so much.” So I started transitioning pretty much as soon as I got out there. Just because at the time, it was you know, politically at that time…it was like 2010 to 2014. And when I'm going into college in 2015, politically, it was so different. So I just needed my space to be able to do that, because it wasn't the most welcoming scenario at home at the time. So I went to school for that, and I really loved it. But then I dropped out in my seventh semester. Because, well, there were a few reasons. A lot were trans-influenced. The teachers weren't really getting it. I was the only trans girl I knew. I remember once, I was between dance classes. I was a dance minor, but it felt like my major, because they were worth half the credit. So I had to do that double as much as all the rest of the classes. And there was this one teacher who was a drag queen. And he only taught the upper levels. And I was really excited to get into the upper levels and get to study with him, because I figured he might understand me the best out of everyone else. And then between classes one day, he is like, “I think you need to drop down to a lower class and learn how to dance like a girl.” Because we had been talking about hormones and stuff, and how I had been changing my body, and how I was working twice as hard and getting less. Because my muscle mass was cutting like that. Which, for those listening, is proper proof to the trans athletes ban that I lost my position in what I was doing because of that. And I just became so devastated because I had worked for so long to get into that level, and then being suggested to drop down - I felt myself getting upset, because I had two classes with him back to back, and he had said it - we would walk over together. And I think in his opinion, he was trying to, I think now, as an adult, thinking back on the conversation, he was probably more so trying to be like, “You need to learn how to use your body with the way that it's been changing.” It wasn't like, “You dance like a brick.: You know what I mean? Because if anything, I was always dancing. But it was more so about the biological changes you would want to recalibrate with. But at the time, I was still such a baby doll. And it just hit me so hard that I remember we were warming up in the second class, and I could feel myself welling up a little bit. So I was like, “Let me just go to the bathroom for a second, let the little cry out, and then come back in and kill this.” I come back out, two and a half hours passed. Whole room is dark. Everyone's gone. Just my bag is sitting in the middle of the room. And I was just like, “I think I need to leave school.” I was like, “I think this is just a sign that this is enough for me.” Because I didn't want to regress in my studies. I was like, “I think I've actually gotten where I’m not going to unlearn this. I already know all the stuff.” And it was my seventh semester, so I only had one more till I graduated. But studying theater and stuff, it's not like anyone's going to ask for your transcript. You’re not becoming a doctor or anything - thank God. No one wants me as a doctor. So then I dropped out and moved in with one of my best friends in Brooklyn. And then before I was even supposed to graduate, I won a beauty pageant. I found it on Craigslist. Just like a random beauty pageant. Woodside Queens.

4: And swept?

A: And swept. Not only did I win, but I was voted Miss Congeniality by the other girls too. So not only was I the baddest, but I was the nicest too. I got my first modeling contract off the bat. And then that summer I booked Pose, which I was on all three seasons of. I got hired as a prostitute, but then the next season they promoted me to a dominatrix. And then finished off the season as a phone sex operator. So it really just helped me run the gamut. I was following around Dominique Jackson's character, Elektra. I'm in a lot of the scenes that she's in. It was such a blessing. She's such a sweetie. Love her crazy. She would always give me - opposite to her character who's really villainy - she would always give me a big squeeze whenever I saw her. So, so, so sweet. And then I just honestly, after that, I made really good friends with some of the casting agents. And then whenever they had the kinky, slutty stuff, they would call me immediately because they knew I would be down for it. A lot of girls are shy. Even the cis girls. And that's what I've also been really proud of. As my career has gone on, I watched the change in the landscape in TV and film from being like, I remember when I started working, like on the sheet, it would be like, “Trans types.” Like that was a type - just to be trans. But now I'm on things where I'm the only doll and not booked as trans. Like I'm just like a girl. Yeah. Girl in the club, except girl on the street. And it's been such a blessing that way. And I've been so grateful for those people because coupled with writing the sexy stuff, which a lot of people, even the cis actresses won't take it because they think it'll tarnish them in a way. I made it my whole vibe. You know what I mean? I was like, “If these are the majority of the calls that I'm getting..” Whenever I would submit for something that was like that, I would get the call immediately back that they wanted me. And then if I was going for something boring, like a jury member or something, I would never get it. They're like, “She's too hot for that.

4: Did that ever bother you?

A: No, I thought it was so fun because I would get to work on like every show. I've been on like every Law and Order you could think of. Like Blue Bloods, FBI, all of that kind of stuff. Always in like the best little outfit. I'm on set with like 20 guys in suits. And then there's me in fishnets getting arrested. Like, “Oh no!” You know, great way to meet people. Great way to meet guys. Great way to date. Truly. And there've been some freaky-deeks in there too. 

4: I’m sure. You're already putting me in the handcuffs, might as well finish the job. 

A: And I love it. I've kind of been garnering it more towards - I want a pretty woman edit where it's -  instead of just like dirty, sexy, slutty, he'd go for a hooker with a heart of gold. Like, “There's something about that prostitute. She has something to say, doesn't she? She has something to say.” 

4: “She has a mouth and it's not just for sucking”

A: Literally, just optimally. I’ve had  so much fun doing it and it's taken me to places that I never thought I would have been in. Like I was in a Stephen King movie as a stripper and I got to drive a car. It was like a silver 86 Lincoln with cherry red leather interiors. And the two other girls - it was a stripper carpool scene. I had two other strippers with me and we were in some dirty little strip club in Connecticut. But the other strippers with me, one of them was Roxy in Chicago on tour. And the other one was, I forget, she was also a diva. But it's two cis girls and I'm the one doll and we're just going into our work at the strip club. I've been so proud to watch the scene change from like, “Haha - tranny.” I think it's both  the climate and as I've gotten more comfortable with myself and leaning myself into who I really am, which, let's be honest, is a bit of a tramp. It's been nice to see the industry's response to that. Like I got to play a stripper on American Horror Story and we were booked as a recreation of a show that actually happened. It was a Ricky Lake kind of thing. And they were interviewing a bunch of sex workers and I was booked to play a real life cis stripper girl. And that, to me, I was so proud of it. I remember sobbing in the car. I was like, “Yeah, we're bad as hell, babe.” Now I'm in a place where I'm trying to just do a little bit more with that. Finally get like a few lines or something. Some character development. Something like that. And then I modeled a little bit too. Been lucky with that as well. I've been in Glamour UK, Rue & Claire France, Vogue a few times. I'm really grateful to have Ryan McGinley in my life. I know him. He's a good friend of mine. I was at his Christmas party this year. And he's such a cutie. And we have something really exciting coming out soon too.

4: So you're working, girl.

A: I'm working. “I'm working late because I'm a singer,” as the prophet Isaiah said.

4: What do you think was the turning point of learning and studying as a kid versus you’re now a professional? When did you feel that moment?

A: Honestly, when I dropped out, I had this huge thing with myself that I wanted to make sure I'm not a burnout. I want to make sure that I dropped out for a reason. I was honestly using Gaga as an example because she dropped out at NYU and it's that “Bus, club, ‘nother club, ‘nother club, no sleep. This album was made on blood, sweat and leather.” I was in that mode. I just have to make something of myself. And it's tied now in, as I've gotten into activism too, it's braided in so much where I don't just want to do it to make a good name for myself, which that's also true. I want the money. I want the fame. I want to be on Fallon. All of that. I want all of it. But then I also want people, when they hear about trans girls, to think of a good thing. Instead of just thinking of goddamn Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl crying and putting on lipstick in the mirror. I've really taken it to heart to make the world fall in love with me a little bit, you know? And that ties even into what I do here [Le Bain.] I always get comments here about the warmth of my energy, that they get really comforted by that. Me and Connie [Fleming], play a really good cop, bad cop in that way. She scares them. She gives them a whip. And then I come in and I'm the nursey one. And I come in and I'm like, “Babe, are you okay? I know she hit you bad, didn't she? Isn't she hot?”

4: I just recently watched this video. I think it's the artistic director at Berghain. He was talking about how he is in the business of oppressing people.

A: Love.

4: Which I think is hilarious. But he explained it in that, you're walking up to this very off-putting building. And you're scared you're not going to get in. And then you finally make it in. You don't have that moment of relief and liberation if you don't have the feeling of oppression right before you go in. Like you need to be yelled at by Connie to get to the point where you're getting a hug from Alana.

A: That's exactly what I say to them all the time. They're like, “Why is she so mean?” And I'm like, “Because she's protecting something good.” And a lot of them also are such fools. They come in and they're like, “I don't know who she thinks she is.” I'm like, “Have you heard of Mugler? Because she's the Mugler doll. They only just took down the Times Square billboard. It’s beyond a pleasure to get bitched out by her.”

4: Your activism and your art, where do those intersect?

A: 2020 was a big year for me in terms of activating myself. It was a lot tied in with BLM as well. Anyone that was in New York for that knows it was a whole other

experience. The first day that the George

Floyd protests moved here there was a cop car that drove right into the Brooklyn protesters and me and my best friend were right in front of that car. If you look at the screenshot and the video, you could see me looking around for him and he's right in front of the car. It was really, really devastating. I slept over at his house the night before and he was like, “Oh, are you going to this?” I was like, “Yeah, sure.” We didn't think anything. After that moment happened it shook me to my core, especially because I could not go anywhere without seeing that video or hearing about it and everytime my eye would go right to him. Every single time. It restructured the way that I thought about how I move in the world instead of thinking the world is something that happens to me. We are something that happens to the world. We actually have a chance to change this. And I was so inspired by him because not only did he get right back up from that, bleeding and shit. He went on the whole night, got his ass whooped by the cops, standing up for people. Seeing someone that I cared about and loved so, so deeply show such a brilliance of character - I tied myself to the cause as well. How could I not, you know? I have some really nasty, nasty PTSD from that moment. I've relived it quite a few times and we both experienced it so differently. Even though the love was always there, it drove us apart a little, And the moment when I really felt like we came back together as friends was one of my biggest steps into activism. I learned a lot from listening to activists like Qween Jean. Following her protests, the queer liberation march that used to start at Stonewall. That's actually how I met Ryan McGinley because he would be on the street photographing the protests. But then from like two or two blocks away or so, I'm such a little camera whore just by nature. And I would see it and I would just be like, [poses] from so far away he would take it. He took this one picture of me and my friend Vice, Maxwell Vice - love you baby. And I got into Aperture magazine so randomly. I got to buy myself in Barnes and Noble. There was going to be a big action specifically for Black trans lives. And I was like, after learning so much, I was like, “I think I'm ready to say something.” I know that I have the gift to gab. I can get a message across. I really wanted to do it, but I didn't really know how. And then when this action started getting planned, it was from STARR - Strategic Trans Alliance for Radical Reform - with my friend Ramaya Lopez-Ebony, who I met on Tales of the City on Netflix. She invited me to talk. And I was like, “Let's just try it out.” I really wanted to do it. And it got streamed nationally by GLAAD. That was a really huge turning point for me because I was lucky that my message was very well received. I made a lot of friends that day because of it. And the thing was massive. We took up one of the whole piers. We took up the entire thing. It was crazy. And hearing Qween Jean riding for me meant so much to me. And you could see in the video, in the GLAAD stream, you could see her clacking her fan and really like hooting and hollering for me. It made me so proud. It made me feel like I was really being baptized in the moment. And then for the first time after feeling so useless because I was at this, white, blonde haired, blue eyed girl from Kingsbridge. And also a tranny. How do I use them both together while also not taking someone else's mic? I never wanted to look like I was in front. How is a trans girl, who's been lucky enough to be able to do things like TV and take little pictures for a living, how do I speak on that in a way that would be able to get through to people? A lot of the way that I did that was learning from Qween Jean. My avenue was always to lead with love through it. There's so many ways that we move through a revolution. And we have to be able to attack what's wrong at all times. So we always have to be able to criticize the people that are in charge of us and the people that make the rules for us. But then we also have to care for ourselves. This also ties back to my best friend so much. He's a Scorpio.

He was very like, “Let's get ‘em!” He was on his Batman shit. He was like, “I'm going to save the city.” So grounded in that very masculine attack mode. Someone's got to keep guard. But then someone's also got to show us what life is worth living for. And that's, at the end of the day, for me personally, always going to be alive, to be a little silly about it. Let me make something absolutely clear - what I focus on would not be possible without the people that are directly at the forefront. I want to focus on my personal strengths, like what I could actually add without just regurgitating what other people are saying and being like, “Did I do good? Is everyone proud of me?” 

4: Because otherwise we just have like a whole bunch of people that are wielding weapons and are we any different than the people that we're opposing at that point? 

A: Exactly. And I'm a little too “hippy dippy, free love” for that. I'm putting the flower in the gun.

4: I'm not going to break a nail.

A: Certainly not. I shouldn't. Let the boys fight the war. The girls are making quilts. I have a dry rag dabbing your forehead. My specialty. There was a guy that got in a kind of nasty fight, but he was so cute and he was bleeding. And I was running around dabbing and dabbing his blood. It was a little bar fight. I was like, “Wow, you're so bad.” And that's equally as important. Every sailor in the army needs a nurse waiting at home.

4: Where you're at right now in your artistic and activist mindset dealing with the current administration and beyond, what's next for you? What's next for your role in the movement?

A: I really try to prioritize joy as an act of resistance. Let me just make this absolutely clear for the cis-het crowd - that is not your focus. That should not be what they are focusing on. But for trans girls to actively pursue being seen as much as possible and being loved wherever you go and being able to share that with other people and show them what trans girls actually can be instead of what they’re reading in the tabloids. Because the administration is attacking us so much, more so than before which I didn’t even think was possible, but here we are. I think I change more worlds with honey rather than with vinegar. I will tie that into wherever I go. Right now, I’m focusing on an audition I have this week. I am trying to get this film so I can really elevate the voice that I can have so that I can continue to use my experiences to try to shape the world around me. My goal is to one day sing Happy Birthday to the president. Couldn’t you see it? 

4: Yes, absolutely. Once we blow up the White House and reconstruct whatever will replace it.

A: Hopefully we’ll have some Black dyke in there. “Happy birthday!” at the Kennedy Center - once we’re allowed back in there. But that’s why I’m trying to get my little butt up on as many stages as possible. For every Sarah McBride we need a Laverne Cox and I consider myself part of the Lavy camp.